Ep.238 The Secret I Carry (Jennifer West-Recovering Alcoholic-Community Liason for Positive Recovery)

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Where'll you be going?

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Exit. Damn, son. Where'd you find this? Go on, make it happen. And now here's Steve and Michelle.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Welcome to Malet and Michelle. I'm Michelle and this is Steve. Hello. Steve will leave on vacation and taking nature. And I will be here at work using the copy machine inappropriately.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I can't even imagine what that looks like. Oh my God. HR. If we had an HR department, they'd be calling right now. My phone would be ringing. Hey, it's HR. I need you guys to come down here later on this afternoon.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

For sure. Well, today our guest is Jennifer West.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

She is a friend of ours, Jennifer West. Former co-worker of ours, yes. We're gonna get her in here in a few seconds, but we gotta thank our wonderful sponsors. Absolutely.

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SPEAKER_01 1:56

So yeah. There'd be a whole lot of filtering going on there.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

For sure, for sure. Well, like I said earlier, Jennifer West, she's the community liaison for positive recovery. And this one's a little personal for me because Steve and I have worked together alongside with Jennifer for a long time at Keller Williams, and we've laughed together, we sold houses together, we went to events together, and we really had no, absolutely no idea that she was fighting the battle that she was fighting. And as daughter of alcoholics, I thought I knew what alcohol alcoholism looked like, and apparently I didn't. So I really want to understand your story, Jennifer, because I think a lot of people listening here have someone they love who's hiding the exact same thing. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

And just for clarity, I got sober in 2012. So I got my license in 2013. So again, I was gonna start off. I'm Jennifer, I'm an alcoholic, and my sobriety date is April 3rd, 2012. And uh, you know, I never in a million years thought I'd be on a public forum talking about this stuff because it's it's there's so much secrecy behind it. You said that, and uh people don't want to come out with it, they don't want to talk about it. And in my case, everybody around me knew I drank not normally, you know, I didn't it had been going on for years. I started at 14 and um it progressed over well from 14 to 18 it was drugs. I did a lot of drugs, um, and then I got pregnant with my son. He's I was 19 when he was born. And you know, after that it went from no drugs, you know, I did no drugs and doing a lot of alcohol. And it just progressed.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

And so you were you were saying earlier when we were before we were recording um more about the culture. When you first started out um your professional business, you were in radio and television or television, um, Fox Sports and so ESPN, right, and so on and so forth. And it was really kind of the culture um that you would do some event or come off the air and you'd like pop a top. And and that's the way everybody socialized. Right. Um how do you think that or why do you think that there's some people that that became an issue with alcoholism became an issue with them and some people it didn't.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

I was we were talking about this earlier. Um I have heard hundreds of people tell their story. I mean, that's a big part of meetings. And I cannot think of one exception to this. There's trauma in the life, and then the person does not feel like they fit in anywhere. So they're isolated a little bit. That's that tends to be a common theme. Um, I can't think of one time when anybody said, I had the best childhood, and you know, it was real happy, and I felt great and comfortable, and I have never heard anybody say that. So in my situation, um, the trauma started at five years old. My parents got a divorce, and my father uh left to go to a job in Louisiana. He didn't leave, you know, but he he moved. And my mom was dealing with their own demons. So she came from an alcoholic home. There was some sexual abuse in that home. Okay. It was pretty bad. So she she was dealing with her own demons, and then you know, the abuse trickled to us, and it was physical abuse. It was, you know, we couldn't do anything right. It was bad.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Jeez, that's hard to grow up, actually.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Yeah. So, you know, that's kind of where it started. And then one weekend she dropped us off at dad's and didn't come back. So there was abandonment thrown in there as well. So here's my dad never having been a single parent, suddenly a single parent, you know. So he had some things that he had to deal with too. So I was kind of looking for approval from people, and I was going the wrong way. So all my friends were into drugs and alcohol. Um, so it that's where it really started. And I'll say that alcoholism is progressive. So, you know, you have fun until it's not fun anymore.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

You said that alcohol was your best friend. That was one of the things that you said.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

What at what point did you realize because it had been going on for decades? At what point did you realize, okay, I have a problem? What did that look like?

SPEAKER_04 6:44

So we play little tricks on ourselves. I used to be a smoker. So smoking and alcohol is tied. So I would, I didn't want to say I can't drink, so I would quit smoking. So I could say I can't drink because if I wanted to take a break. So there were times throughout my life where I took big long breaks and my life would get better. But then I would go out with a friend. Breaks from alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

You'd stop drinking.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

But and it was easy.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

It was easy to do. It was. But the way it works for me, if I put any amount of alcohol in my body, I can't stop. It starts a craving and I can't stop until I pass out. So you know, every morning I would wake up, especially towards the end. I mean, I had a great job. I was married. Um, in 2008, my husband and I bought a house in Spring Lake, and that's where we lived. And that is the beginning of when the good stuff starts happening because I say that I was miserable. But the good stuff is I was positioned in a place where AA was pretty much directly across the street. There's a, you know, AA group close by. And um, for someone that said, I'm never going to AA, I'm never gonna, I thought you just put the bottle down, you're done. And it's not like that. No.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

You gotta have the support.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

You do. So have the support, have a fellowship. I'm still super involved. I go to meetings a couple times a week. I speak, I do all kinds of things. Service, I sponsor.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Do you do you remember a specific point where you woke up or you were sitting on the porch or something and you said, Jennifer, this is not right. I've got to fix this. Is there is there a a moment?

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Can't do this anymore. You know what? There's been moments throughout because you never want to say, or I didn't, I'm an alcoholic. I need help, right? Because it's a stigma. People judge you. And but there were times I remember, um, and the thing is that I did not black out until the end of my disease. So um I remembered everything I did, everything I said. And so towards the end, I started to black out. And I would wake up and I would look at the people that were in the house, and I'm like, okay, they're not mad, so I didn't make anybody mad. I couldn't remember what I did the night before. And it it just I made all my decisions based on alcohol. If we had a wedding to go to and it was an open bar, it was great, but then we have to get home. And I don't know how I managed to not get a legal, you know, problem.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

I didn't get a DUI.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Was was your husband at the time drinking?

SPEAKER_04 9:22

He was. So we he I married my uh drinking buddy. And so we both quit at the same time. Um and then I, you know, it's like you put together the life when you're drinking, and it wasn't the life I wanted. So when I got sober, I had to unravel this life that I was unhappy in. And my husband knew that I was gonna unravel it and it wasn't gonna include him. And so 2013, I had been to counseling for a while. I was still drinking, and I was like, Okay, I'm done. I I don't want to do this anymore.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Yeah, I remember um through my stepfather's journey, I would tell him I was a teenager, and I would say, You're an alcoholic, you know, and he took it as obviously total offense. And his response to me used to be, Well, I don't drink in the morning, I'm not an alcoholic. That was that's his reasoning right there. But what do you think is the biggest lie that people tell themselves in regards to drinking alcohol and the where it becomes a cat you when you become a casual drinker to a problemed drinker?

SPEAKER_04 10:32

That's the that's the thing, is I crossed an invisible line. I did not know. And I always said, Yeah, I could quit anytime because I had, right? But I had never tested it towards the end. It was an everyday thing. So I'd wake up in the morning feeling miserable. I had to go to work. Um, you know, I had responsibilities, and so I'd wake up and I'd say, I'm not doing this again. And I would start to feel better by about two in the afternoon. I get my car and I go to the store. And I bought beer every day because I knew if I bought a big amount and kept it in the garage or something, I would drink way more.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Because beer's not alcohol, there are there's a whole sect of people. I even saw it on Landman. There's a whole sect of people that think, oh, I I'm an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

I can't be an alcoholic, all I drink is beautiful. All I drink is beer. Is it you said casual drinker versus problem drinker, Michelle did? Is there such a thing as a casual drinker? Sure. So that's somebody who doesn't have a problem. They can drink uh drink once a week, they can drink once a month, no problem at all. No problem. So why does it become a problem for some people?

SPEAKER_04 11:38

It's I think it's a you know, the way that we're made up because what happens with me is I I told you I get any amount of alcohol in my body and it triggers this craving.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

But is that is that the way it is with almost all alcohols?

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yes. Okay. That's what I've been told. I mean, we have what's called heavy drinkers, and maybe they're alcoholic, maybe they're not. But when my life started to unravel, it was gonna unravel fast. I was holding it together. I think me being such a stubborn person actually helped because I was able to hold it together. I wasn't losing jobs, I still had my relationships. You had justifications all around. Yeah, yeah. This is why.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

No legal ramifications. I never got a DUI. You exactly. We were talking, you know, to bounce off of your question when you chosen, you've chosen sobriety and to avoid alcohol because alcohol is not safe for you. But what do you believe about everybody else? Do you think it's something everyone else should avoid, or is alcohol the problem, or is the relationship with alcohol the problem? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

The relationship. I mean, I in my sobriety have served alcohol. Um, you know, there were times where I would go to a party or whatever. I do it all the time. Truly, it the the thought for me drinking alcohol has been removed. I have no desire. And that doesn't keep me safe because I see a lot of people that have been sober a long time, and then all of a sudden they're like, I'm cool, I got this.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

I can just have a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

No, you can't. You know what's funny is uh uh I drank when I was younger, but uh I didn't have a problem with it. I did drink sometimes to blackout, but it was, you know, I was 20-something years old. That's kind of your experiencing the world. But uh when I decided, nah, it's not good for me, I'm not gonna drink anymore. For years I would be at a party or something and I'd have my little bubbly water or whatever, and people would go, come on, man, just have a beer. It's pressure. It really is. Yeah, it's pressure. So as you got sober, if you were still friends with some of these people that were had problems with alcohol, were they leaning on you? Come on, Jennifer, just have one. I won't.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

You're fine, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because when I sponsor women, one of the first things we talk about is okay, you're gonna be in a social situation. I want you to plan what you're gonna say. Because I did not know, and I went over to a friend's house, and I live in dripping springs. I mean, everybody would know Drinking Springs, yeah. Yes, exactly. But everybody would know that I was an AA and I was very visible in the community while I was hiding it. So my thing was, what am I gonna say if somebody pops in and asks, why aren't you drinking? Because I was caught off guard at a party and I didn't know what to say. So, you know, it it's a big deal. It's a really big deal. And people do try to come at you, you know, it's like, why aren't you doing that?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah. The way you just said it is how some people react to me. How come you're not drinking, man? Like they were offended that I decided to not have a drink.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

So sometimes people, you know, they'll pour sparkling water and put a lime in it. And that way, no, but that's what Steve.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

That's what I try and do. You know, if you have a little plastic bottle of water, it's obvious, but you know, you can get a fizzy water or some, you know, something and and make it look like it's a drink.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

And when we've gone to events um together, work events, uh, if I get there before him, I will go ahead and order whenever I order something for myself, I will order it for him too. And so instantly when he walks in, he already has something in his hand. And so I think it's that kind of birds of a feather mentality. Well, if I can get so and so to drink, then I'm don't have a problem. You said something I thought was really touched on me. It was really interesting. You said your relationship with your your husband had changed. It reminded me of my my mother and stepfather's relationship. Once my stepfather got sober, that my mother almost became I wouldn't say the enemy, but their lives didn't fit together anymore because everything they did revolved revolved around drinking, every single thing. And so your relationship wasn't built on this compassion and and love and trust, it was built on a substance. It was that is that normally the truth?

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Yeah, I mean, it it was. It was interesting because he knew that as soon as I got sober, I would want to, you know, unravel the relationship. I would want to end it. And so he kind of tried to sabotage.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

That's what I was gonna say. Do you see that a lot in couples?

SPEAKER_04 16:12

I see it a lot in couples, I see it a lot in families because here's the the person that's the alcoholic. So the other side of that is Al-Anon or it's the codependent or their job and their sickness is to try to fix it, right? Well, if you're already fixed, they don't have anything to do. So it makes families really uncomfortable. So going to a place that has a family program is great because you have to know how to reconnect. You've got to know how to communicate. And what's on, you know, what's on your side of the street or not. It's not your job to fix an alcoholic. It's not.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

And well, they don't get fixed unless they realize they have a problem.

SPEAKER_04 16:52

They have to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

That's like step one. Step one. It is step one. Yeah, yeah. So your your journey, your personal journey has led you to a career now in helping other people. So, and you're it's you're working for a company called Positive Recovery. I am. And what do they do?

SPEAKER_04 17:09

So we have three um inpatient treatment centers, one in Dallas, one in Spicewood, one in Houston. Okay. And then we've got uh it's a total of 22 different centers, and some of them are intensive outpatient programs. Uh we do partial hospitalization, we do detox, we do inpatient. But a big piece of it is a family program also. But we use positive psychology. So when somebody is at the point where they're ready to get help, they are so down on themselves. They are like, I I suck, basically, and they feel terrible. So what we do is we try to build them up and then we introduce them to a 12-step program as well. And um, so it's very powerful. And I love it when I'm working with somebody and the light comes on, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

It that is that is also very interesting in someone that is quitting alcohol. Is it harder for them to quit alcohol or meeting the the real self of who they are where they at that moment? Like, oh, now I gotta, I can't, I don't have the excuse of the bottle.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Can't hide behind that.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

I can't hide behind it. This is actually, I'm actually an asshole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Well, it's interesting because you know, when I went to the program, I remember walking into that meeting for the first time, and everybody is, you know, laughing and they're so happy. And I thought it was a bunch of crap, you know. Yeah, I get it. I think it took a minute, it took a minute for me to kind of realize, and I honestly didn't know who I was. Yeah. So for I don't know, the last 12 years, I real yeah, 11 years. I really have not known what I wanted to do. I knew what I did before. I've been in sales forever. I've done real estate, I've tried so hard to like it. I keep, I won't do it and then I'll go back. And so this last couple of years, it's like I took a step back and I did just menial tasks, hourly tasks, just to not commit to a job. I really wanted to know what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Well, take stock in yourself. Like who who am I? Who am I? Who am I?

SPEAKER_04 19:23

And it all goes back to helping other people. And I've been doing that for free for a long time. But now it's like I have the opportunity to really help people. Yeah, you know, and um it there's so much value in that. I feel so good about being able to help someone get sober because I know how hard it is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

So when you uh first went to that that very first AA meeting, did you look around and think, I don't belong here? These these people all have problems. I don't have a problem. Did you have that?

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah, what a bunch of losers.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I think that's if I was if it was me, I'd be like, no, I'm not like them. I bet that happens a lot.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

It does. And so, you know, we always say, just go to two or three meetings or go to different meetings. You know, don't look for the things that are different, look for the similarities. And so I will tell you the defining moment for me is uh in 2000, I guess a year before I actually quit. I was trying to quit almost every day. But one night I was laying on the couch, my husband had gone to bed. That was when I would drink and cry. I was miserable. And this commercial came on, and it was for addiction the cure, you know. And so I I decided I wanted to do that, but I couldn't leave town because I had an important job, um, you know, and I didn't want anybody to know. So their program was in California. So they sent me the book and I read the book, and it says you need a nutritionist and acupuncture, you need therapy, you need all this stuff, right? But I'm not going to AA. Yeah. I had tried that at 21, and I'm not gonna go to those stupid meetings. So I I made the decision eventually to go into detox, and it was the best thing I ever did. It was at the right step in in Wimberley, and I checked into detox, and I still wasn't gonna go to AA. I was saying, nope, not doing it. And so I got really bored because you do nothing in detox, and I went to an AA meeting and I walked in and I was like, damn it. And so they actually like these people. I know, I I could totally relate, you know, to what was going on. And the counselor there, um, he he was trying to get me to do the 30 day and I wouldn't do it. I was the 30 day tell us to do it impatient 30 days.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

And I wouldn't do it, you know. I was like, no, I'm not gonna do it. You just signed up for detox. You're like, okay, I'm just gonna get I I'm just gonna go get detox and then I'm done. It's better cutting.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Right, right, right. Is detox just weaning your body off the cravings for alcohol?

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Alcohol, if you stop abruptly, it's very dangerous. You could die. Okay. And so my brother had been to rehab a couple of times and he told me about detox. I was detoxing for a week, and you know, uh they kept trying to keep me for 30 days and I wouldn't do it. So I had to write a contract that I would go straight to AA and I did. And literally it was across the street from my house. Yeah. So it was no excuses.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

What did that week of detox look like for you? How'd you feel? What did you go through?

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Well, it's not fun.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I bet it's not. What is it?

SPEAKER_04 22:46

You have an elevated heart rate, you have high blood pressure, you feel jittery, you're not in a good mood.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

You know, because it's just like I don't know if you've ever quit smoking or changed your diet. You know, if you've changed I'm all right, no ice cream. I'm not doing it. What do you think about all the time? Right. So it's just one of those things that um I knew I had to do something severe. Now, you said something earlier about kind of what an alcoholic looks like. Yeah. My mom, well, first my dad, I called him on uh April 1st and I told him what was going on. He's like, is this a really bad April Fool's joke? They lived in Canyon Lake. I lived in, you know, and I said, No. They said, You don't you don't have a problem? And I said, Have I ever answered the phone after nine o'clock crickets? Never, because I'd be drunk. Oh, you know, so I was really good at hiding it. Yeah. And my mom said, But you don't look like an alcoholic. And I said, Well, what does an alcoholic look like? Yeah. And she, you know, she said, Well, you know, you're you're not all kind of mangled, and you know, no.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

You're not you don't look ragamuffin. That's right. What was the thing about sobriety that really surprised you? Was it the grief, the anger, or maybe even the joy?

SPEAKER_04 24:10

So what I've noticed, number one, anybody in recovery is never gonna communicate the same way. We all talk about stuff that people are like, I can't believe they're talking about that. I can't believe they said that out loud. I know. I mean, we'll be in a meeting, and some guy is like, I lived in a cardboard box, and everybody's like, ha ha ha. You know, we it's it is because it's all part of our life. Right. Um, but for me, it's being more real. Um, one of the big parts of the program that I have done is spiritual. So I'm not a religious person, and I had kind of an aversion to it from being Southern Baptist when I was growing up. You know, you're gonna burn in hell basically. So when when I finally realized there's a difference between spirituality and religion, yeah, I was better. And so, like before I came in, I prayed. You know, God give me the words to help someone. Give me the strength. Yes. And so I do that often. And it's kind of like in my car, you know, I'll be talking, it's like, okay, what am I gonna do? And I have conversations with my ceiling in my car, you know. But keep your eyes on the road, Jennifer. I know, I know. If you see me talking to the ceiling, that's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I wanted to kind of piggyback on what you said about what is an alcoholic look like. One of the men in in my life who has since passed that I respected and admired more than anybody I've ever met. Uh, even when I he was a big part of my life, uh, the family would say, make sure you don't talk to him after six o'clock to ask him anything important. Right. Because he's checked out. He was great during the day, but after six o'clock, he came home, he got his bottle of scotch. He would go into his home office, and then he was out. He was done. And he would drink himself till he had to stumble off to bed. Yeah. Every single day. I did too. Yeah. That was me. You know, that and this this guy, he was a very high-functioning individual, but an alcoholic. So, you know, you were saying the guy in the cardboard box, this was a guy that I loved that was very well respected in the community, struggled just like any other alcoholic. So there is no one picture for another.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

No. I mean, everybody has a different level of what their low is. And to be honest, I've known a lot of people that died. You know, my husband died a year and a half after we divorced. Oh, really? Oh gosh. So he went, you know, and if somebody is determined to kill themselves with a bottle, there's nothing you can do. Yeah. Somebody has to be real, you know, they have to realize first that they're an alcoholic, then they have to be willing to go do something about it. And I can't give somebody willingness. I can help.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

I can plant seeds, but I can't make them willing.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

I I equated it to one of the longest goodbyes. Yeah. Is that you're watching it and you can't you can't do anything to stop it. And I guess that was probably Al Anon that did it as like, you know, it's out of my my control. And you had mentioned about your brother. Um, but and did your brother struggle with the same addictions that that you did, and now you are raising his nine-year-old daughter?

SPEAKER_04 27:22

So his death was kind of a direct result, we were told. He he was diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of 2021. And he had struggled. He was in and out of, you know, rehabs and AA, and he he eventually moved to uh Canyon Lake. And so I got him immersed in the groups that that I was going to. And by that point, his drinking had caused something it's called um uh esophageovarices, and it's a vein issue in the throat. I've heard of that. From alcohol. So his uh cancer was a throat cancer, and he was getting radiation. And we believe that it actually caused him to bleed out, and that's how he died.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

That's how my stepfather died.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

Really? Is it from that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

It's it's that's how he died. He was an ex-CI agent, he was marine, he's buried at Arlington National Cemetery. He had, you know, all the accolades, and I think he had like three master's degrees from George Washington University. He was a very functional, yeah, unfunctioning alcoholic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah. Is it uh kind of piggybacking on what Michelle just said, is uh the slow demise of is some people have sort of a death wish that they're they're so miserable and that they're consciously or subconsciously drinking themselves to death?

SPEAKER_04 28:50

They, you know, I was working with Kamal County, they have a mental health division. And so one of the officers called me and he said, Can you come out here? There's a guy, and you know, we keep getting him on a 72-hour hold, and he just checks himself out and he goes back because his wife had left him. And so he told me, I want to die. I want to die, I want to die, I want to die. And there's there was nothing that I could do for him anymore. I actually got him to the treatment center and he Ubered home. So again, I cannot give you willingness until you're ready.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Until you're ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Yeah. And that's the most frustrating part. Because if you're a normie, is what we call, you know, you're gonna go, just put it down.

unknown 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

It doesn't work like that.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

That's the frustrating part. And now that you're raising your nine-year-old niece, you know, growing up with an alcoholic parent, I know you know, I know what it feels like on the family side. So what's something you wish children of alcoholics kind of understood about what their parents went through?

SPEAKER_04 29:48

Fortunately, she was uh with my brother and he she grew up in AAA, you know, and her mom's an alcoholic too, and not present. But just knowing uh if there I think we have an allotine meeting close by, but there are groups. Um, and if you can't find a group, reach out to somebody that you know is in the program and they'll help. Um, but it it is better. I mean, there's a way to make things better and stop the cycle. Yes, and you don't ever have to feel that way again. You know, fortunately for us, we have all kinds of programs. We've got, you know, everything is on TV now, the phones. So we have accessibility, you know, access to all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

What's the first step if somebody right now listening is like, okay, this was like a this was a message from God that I need, I've been struggling with this and uh I need to get better. What's the first thing you know, what's what's the first thing you'd recommend that somebody does? If they're sitting here right now going, okay, it's time, what do they do?

SPEAKER_04 30:54

They can contact me.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

Um, you know, either I'll give a direct number. I don't know if that's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Absolutely. We can do it at the website.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah, I don't like giving out phone numbers on the air. But we'll we'll we'll we'll we can find out a way to connect you through the website.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Absolutely. And then if you need to connect us, we can connect you with Jennifer too. I want to know about the science of addiction because now that you've you're you're working for a rehab center and so you're on the other side of this, and you are definitely a success story. So let's talk about the science of it and kind of going back to what Steve says is like why certain people, what is it about their body makeup that certain people become alcoholics and others don't? Outside of the trauma. Is it is it some genetic makeup? Because Steve and I were talking about it, about it people labeling it as a disease.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yeah, there's that thing, d is it a disease or is it just an addiction? And what you know, maybe there's no differentiation. But what do you think about it?

SPEAKER_04 31:56

Well, let's say you have an addiction to shellfish. Your body is different and you're not able to metabolize shellfish the right way. It'll make you sick, you could die. And it's very similar to that, what I understand. Now, I am not any trained anything, you know. I'm an I'm an alcoholic that went through rehab, so I don't have any certifications. But what I see is people are different, you know. Um, as far as my situation, my mom, her dad was an alcoholic, she was an alcoholic, her brother was an alcoholic, both my brother and I. So it's definitely a family disease, and it gets passed down. Um ancestral trauma is something that people talk about. And so we want to end that, you know, with our own children.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

I I I do agree with you on some point, but then I also growing up, I also feel like people have a personal responsibility. People do have choices. And um I think that sometimes I feel by calling it a disease, it like they have no part it lacks the accountability on the person. You know, I I also raised uh uh my nephew. Um his mother was a drug addict, and we raised my nephew, and it was so frustrating to me where you have this nine-year-old child that wants more than anything to be with that parent. More than anything. They've got a big roof over their head, they have a pool in the backyard, they have food on the table. And this mother would let them the 30 days one time he was by himself, totally by himself. But he wanted to do anything he could to get back. And her response to me all the time was, I have a disease. I have a disease. I'm like, but you also have a child. You have a personal. And so I struggle with that accountability and the choice, and then also the innate. Yeah, it's I I don't I don't know personally where um where the line where the line draws on that.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

Well, that ties back to realizing you have a problem. You know, if somebody's gonna throw their hands up, I have a disease and they're going out drinking. That is a crutch.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Or shooting up, yeah, whatever it is, you know.

SPEAKER_04 34:12

But for me, it's like I know there's work to do. I did not just walk into the room and suddenly I'm better. I had to do the work. I had to do the steps. I got a sponsor, I started sponsoring other women, I did a service position in AA. So that's how I chose to get, you know, better. But if I did not recognize it is part of it is, you know, uh physical, but the rest of it's work.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

It's more what are what are the steps to overcome addiction? The alcohol or drugs? You start out in AA? What what's what are the steps?

SPEAKER_04 34:46

Oh have I memorized them? No. So I guess that's pretty easy to look up on that.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

I had memorized them at once. I know the ability to accept the things that I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

Wisdom to know the difference.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Do you focus every meeting does it focus on one of those principles?

SPEAKER_04 35:04

Or is it it just depends? I mean, step one is where you say, Oh my God, here's how I describe it. Step one is, oh my God, there's a problem. What am I gonna do? You know, because you don't do the steps one time, you do it forever. Okay. And it that's your kind of how you cope with things too. Is like, okay, what's the problem? And then, you know, two and three, you're dealing with the higher power. So the spiritual aspect, turning it over to God, not holding everything. Okay. I was, I got this, I can do it, you know, and trudge through. I know. And then you do the inventory in step four. You tell somebody, you tell God, you know, it's looking at what your character defects are, accepting those, and then praying to have those things removed. And then, you know, you have to look at who did I hurt in this process.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Oh, that one, the amends part. I mean, I I remember when my stepfather was going to the making amends, and you know, I'm I'm a sassy 16, 17 year old, and I was basically F off. Yeah. You know, you're not gonna just come tell me you're sorry because you fucking destroyed my life when I was a teenager. Really? Go away. And so I think also there's uh there's a process for him too to not accept that apology, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

So it's I've seen people so ready to feel better, they were like, I'm gonna go do that now. And I'm like, no, no, no, you're not, because the first go-round on my steps, I I was like, okay, I'm sorry, I'm supposed to do these steps. It was like so nothing. And then when I did it for real, to see someone's face, some of the people didn't remember what I had done, you know, but to have someone kind of go, oh my gosh, thank you so much, you know. And and there's some people you make an amends to and they don't want anything to do with you. They're pissed, they've got a resentment, they they don't you can't hold that to yourself because that's their journey.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

That yes, you've done what you need to do. You've you've apologized, you've said sorry, here's what I did wrong. If they don't accept that, that's not on you. That's right. That's part of what you're saying. It's also I can't control it all.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yeah, the personal accountability. And so, Jennifer, when when you're talking about, excuse me, going through your steps and going through your journey. Did you have close friends that when you were making the amends or or going through those steps, going, you know, God, Jennifer had the courage. Maybe I should have the courage.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

I didn't have it then. Um, 10 years of being in the closet. I was a closet alcoholic. Um, I got my 10-year chip and I went, you know what? I'm gonna write it down. So I wrote down my story, I posted it on Facebook because I was tired of hiding, and I had three people contact me.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

And that's, you know, that's why I'm out, so to speak. Yeah. I I'm I live out loud, people know that I'm in recovery. I talk about it. They come to me often, and you know, they're like, I need help, my sister, my brother, my mom, whatever. Yeah. And so people reach out to me all the time.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

One of our most listened to episodes was Micah Scott with was uh episode 81, and uh it's by far the most listened to, and we've had a lot of people say that made a difference in my life. He just poured his heart out, just like what you're doing right now. I want to ask you about the culture of drinking, how it's such a big part of modern life. It is. You know, we go to all kinds of realtor events and parties and uh awards things, and there's always alcohol.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

Everything revolves around.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah, and that's exactly right. Yes. Some of them, the main purpose for getting together is to drink.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

How do you cope with that? I you know, I made a lot of decisions based on that, and including jobs and where I lived, because I didn't want a job where I had to get up super early because guess who's gonna be hung over? She was up drinking the night before. I wouldn't take the job. How stupid is that? Um, but everything is you know, does revolve around it. I will say when I quit drinking, my house was uh the party house. We had the big, you know, barbecues in the backyard, we had all the beer, everybody hung out. When I got sober, poof, they went away.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

You're not real friends then.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

Well, it part of it is I'm a walking mirror.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

Well, yeah, it's it's it's looking into themselves. It's like, oh, well, Jennifer can do it. I know I probably do it, but I don't want to.

SPEAKER_04 39:40

Well, guess what? None of my friends drank less than me.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Really?

SPEAKER_04 39:46

No, because that's their eye over. I didn't want anybody to know. Yeah. So I surrounded myself with people that drank if, you know, if not as much, but more than I did. Um, so you know, when I would I remember telling my those friends, I'm like, hey, you know, I got sober and da-da-da. They get real uncomfortable and they're like, as they're holding their margarita, they're like, you know, I probably drink too much and uh they start stumbling. And I make them uncomfortable. Sure. So I don't ever want to do that. I want to leave the door open so if they do need help, they can go.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

But but Jennifer, that's your journey, right? That's not that's not their journey. And and you had to work through all of that. And I think um, I think there's such a stigma around it. Like you were talking about friends, kind of birds of a feather, going back to birds of the feather. And if you have friends that you feel are drinking too much or partaking too much, is it our is it our place? Is it our job to say, hey, you may want to slow down a little bit? Or is it are we again looking like the assholes? Because maybe they don't know. Maybe they do did anybody come to you and say, Jennifer, like you're blacking out drunk.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Like I care about it. Nobody, nobody. And and that was weird. It's like my parents were shocked. You know, they knew I drank too much, but they didn't think I was an alcoholic, you know, they didn't get it. So it it's just it's not my responsibility to make somebody stop.

unknown 41:17

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

But I also but it is my responsibility to I have now limited my interactions with that person because I don't want to be associated with the foolishness of the stuff that they are they're doing when they get to that level.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

I mean, I've talked my I've got um, I'm not gonna say that. So I have spoken with people that had the problem and it's like, hey, I'm worried about you. And this is what happened to me. So we do, you know, it's a 12-step call, and that's okay. And either they're ready or they're not. You know, but then if if they get ready, they knew know who to call.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

And is that more like being an example than like chastising them?

SPEAKER_04 41:57

Is that the that's the whole difference for positive recoveries basis is the positive psychology. I don't see.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

I said sometimes being so being around sober people is like being around vegans, because there's certain people that are sober that will let you know all the time they're sober, and it that becomes part of their whole identity, and it's almost like the judgmental side, like if I'm having a glass of wine, oh well, I'm sober, and then offer you.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

It's probably a uh a defense mechanism, though, right?

SPEAKER_04 42:28

I think so. And honestly, people don't think about you as much as you think they do.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

Oh, you know, that's a great response.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Yeah. Um, I, you know, it's honestly, it is the best thing I ever did. Well, yeah. It is. I mean, it's changed my life. I was afraid to get sober because I thought I would not have fun. I thought I'd be bored, I wasn't gonna have any friends, you know, or hang out like church people. Oh my God. Yeah, I know. I know. So we have more fun going to these stupid people.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Because you can remember it.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

So too, you know, like I and you're can and you're you're there, you're present. It's joy.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

I told Steve kind of the same thing. You know, I'm I'm in circles right now where I'm around a lot of musicians and a lot of events, and I was like, I don't want to if if I am participating and listening to the music, yeah, I'll have a drink or two or whatever. But if I am helping run this, I don't want to do that. I want to be my mindset there.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

I worry that it is so prevalent. Alcohol is so prevalent in our society. Like I remember when I was growing up, the thought of I never saw my parents drink. I know they did, but I never saw them. Now people take their kids to the local brewery to play in the playground. It's like such a big part of our society. That bothers me. Especially out here. Yeah. I just changed that because it is damaging so many people's lives. Not not everybody. There's plenty of people out there. There, they can have a drink or two once in a while. No problem. They enjoy it. It's fine. And they don't, they're they're not addicted in any way. There's a lot of people that are really struggling with it because it's just everywhere. It's that social norm. Everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Jennifer, what do you think the drinking Jennifer would think about today's Jennifer?

SPEAKER_04 44:19

This never would have happened.

unknown 44:21

Really?

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Oh gosh. No. I would never go and t tell all my deep. Um, I would hope that, you know, honestly, deep down, I think back then I really wanted this, but I didn't know how to get it. You know, I was afraid. And fear is a big thing. And I will say, I do not feel shame. I used to wake up every single day feeling shame. When you were drinking. When I was drinking. I don't feel that now.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

You feel powerful?

SPEAKER_04 44:51

I do. You're powerful. Yeah. I mean, I have to give it all. Yeah, I mean, I still rely on a spiritual aspect of God. And um but it's different. It's way different. But I I believe I would I kind of wanted this, like I said, but I just didn't know how to get there.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

So let's talk a little bit about positive recovery. Tell tell me what makes this place different outside of the psychology aspect. So if if it's somebody that's seeking treatment and they are checking in for the first time, do you know what the process that is when they go into intake? They're going into medical detox first, usually for 30 days. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

Some people have been trying it on their own and they realize they can't.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

And so they need they do they just need a little bit more support.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Yeah. And the difference here is we really focus on the strengths.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Um, so they're evaluated and uh we figure out what their strengths are because we want to build them up, you know. And so positive psychology is a big part of that. And so that's really what sets us apart from others. The other thing is the amount of options we have in the state of Texas. You know, there's three locations in the Austin area for IOP, um, intensive outpatient. So once they leave, they can go to partial hospitalization at one of the locations, which is all day program. Um, or they can go three hours in the morning and three hours in the afternoon for intensive outpatient. And then we also have aftercare, which if they successfully complete IOP, they come aftercare forever.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

So the IOP, you could you could kind of go part-time, especially if you're worried about if you're like a primary breadwinner or something like that, and you need to be able to work you can't check out of life completely for a period of time.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

No, and you know, we don't want people's businesses to go away while they're in for 30 days. So, you know, that's discussed at the intake at the very beginning. And if they need to on a daily basis check emails and do certain things, then absolutely um because you know, we put a lot of effort into drinking. If we put that much effort into getting better, yeah, isn't that the truth?

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Yeah, it is. Tell talk to me about the positive psychology. Is that I mean it sounds pretty self-explanatory, but is that not making working on when the people are in involved in the program, let not letting them get stuck in the negativity? Is that how's that work? Pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

It's just part of the uh we have a curriculum. It's a whole workbook that is focused around that. Um, and that like I said, they're introduced to the 12 steps, but we want to find out, you know, what is their strengths, what are their strengths. And so every day we send out um every day we sorry. Every day we send out a sheet that has the patients and what their strengths are. Okay. It's kind of like, you know, I said it's kind of like a love language, huh? So if you know what somebody's strengths are and you know what their weaknesses are, you know how to help.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

That that makes sense to me because if I got a list every day of it and it said, here are the things you need to work on today. Here are the things that you're falling down on. You know, you you you did this wrong, you did that wrong, you didn't you said you were gonna do this and you didn't do that, I would stop looking at that. But if I got a list every day that said, you know, uh this is your fifth day without drinking, and you know, that's your longest day. And you yesterday you went and made uh whatever, I'm just making it up off the top of my head, but then I'd be more likely to read that versus the negative.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

I could send you a list every day if you would like to.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

I could I could donate a checklist. She's my accountability partner.

SPEAKER_03 48:37

I want you to tell me also about the family aspect and how the family is now integrated into treatment because that was really important to me. I remember I'll never forget this. There's, you know, there's certain kind of catalyst moments in your life. And this was one of them walking in and seeing my stepfather at family day for the first time. I think he'd been in there for like 60 days or 45 days or however long he had been in there. And I was like, wow, I didn't even recognize him. Yeah. Like at the energy that's way different.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Yeah. If somebody's in there and they're taking it seriously and they're not forced to go, you know, those are the best because um you can see when the light comes on because somebody walks in and they're dark and they hate this and they don't want to do it. And then as they're going through their treatment, they're starting to smile again, they're starting to feel better. So the family aspect, we do a family group every third week. And so it's for the whole weekend. And it's intense. We have um the president of our company is the one that does it here in the Austin or Spicewood location. And um, she's really good at it, and she's very good at kind of pointing out all right, this is proper ways of communication, and this is not. And I'll be honest, I haven't experienced it yet. I've been at positive recovery for about a month and a half. So it's on my schedule to do as well as a day in the life of a patient. I'm gonna spend a whole day being a patient to see what they. But the the culture of the company is fantastic and that trickles down to the patients, you know, treat people with respect. It's really great.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Yeah. I want to ask you about something you said in your bio that you used to worry all the time and now you've have more peace. That actually is the opposite of what I would have expected, because when you drink, you probably sometimes drink to not worry. But so how's that? How have you found the peace now?

SPEAKER_04 50:37

So for me, it's like if if and this is what I learned in AA if I'm experiencing anger, I can back into it and figure out what I'm afraid of. Fear is there. So just by knowing that, and then I know one of my tools is prayer. I pray a lot, you know, and sometimes I don't ever pray for strength because your world around you will fall apart.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

You know.

unknown 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Don't I used to say don't pray for patience because God will give me things to be patient about. Well, and you also found love again. So, and he's he's sober as well.

SPEAKER_04 51:15

He is, he's sober. It's really cool to date somebody that is in the program and we talk about everything. And so it's really cool to have that, you know, ability to sit down and I can see he's having a bad day, or he sees I am, and eventually we're laughing because we talk about it. So it's way different.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

Yeah. That's sweet. Yeah, that is that's that's very sweet. I'm glad that you have found that you found your light again in the sense that um, because you have now a niece that you are starting all over. Yeah. You have five grandchildren. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

It's I will tell you when I first okay, so Jeff died um in August of 2021. My parents had her.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

They're grandparents. She was running all over, right? So she's four years old, just this little spitfire. She is. And I realized after keeping her for a couple of weeks when my parents went on a cruise that I needed to do it. And so I prayed about it, picked up the phone, I said, Hey, when you get back, we need to talk about this. So I've had her since she was four. And she's tough. She's just like me.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

You know, everybody says she's a little you, and that's why we butt heads, but she's tough. And bless her heart, her mom has been out. And what you said earlier about wanting to be, she's like, Well, why did why can't mommy talk?

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 52:40

You know, it's like if mommy wants to talk, she'll but it's not your fault, and we have to reinforce everything.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

It's heartbreaking, and that's it. So where you're trying, you're you're trying to say, Well, on one hand, you're not trying to dismiss her parent, but on the same time, you're trying to say, look what you have here, you know. And and with that mind of a child, it's really hard to comprehend because ultimately they just want their parent, you know, they just want their mom.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

And yeah, yeah, we've been through stuff.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

Like mom uh was in a relationship that was physically abusive, and the guy ended up going to prison, and when he got out, he did it again. And so my brother had removed her from the house because of that situation. So she remembers stuff like that. And you know, she goes to counseling. I've got her in all kinds, we're doing um hip hop right now. She did a recital. Oh, she's so good. And uh, but we argue and we fight. She's just like that's just like every other kid, but you know, every other nine-year-old.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Her parents' illness and disease does not define who she is.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Yeah, and she'll go, she goes to AA with me too. And one day she goes, Are we going to a meeting tonight? And I was like, Do we do you need one? She goes, Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

And I said, Then yes, we are. That's funny. Well, Jennifer, now you've uh I I would assume now you you you've talked a lot about the in your bio about you love the outdoors. And so when you were drinking, that probably wasn't even a part of your life at all, was it?

SPEAKER_04 54:15

To be honest, every single weekend we would go to Home Depot and we would buy stuff for the yard because we did do a lot of work in the yard. So that didn't change. But going, I mean, I still love doing that. Um, but going hiking or going to the water or going, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

I mean You wouldn't have done that probably when you were drinking, right?

SPEAKER_04 54:34

Let me tell you, the last trip we took was to Jamaica. And it I made sure it was an all-inclusive trip. This was in 2011, and we ended up going to a sandals resort, and every day we would walk in from being gone all day, and the bar had been restocked.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_04 54:52

That probably helped me get sober too. Because I mean, send me a new liver. I was done. Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

How is your body? Um, you talk about your new liver. How does how is your body recovered? You know, everything that that you put your body through. Speaking of liver, fatty liver, you can get fatty liver disease, the esophagal issues. I mean, that's where you you're 58, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_04 55:18

So this is the miracle. I did not have any kind of enzyme or you know, issues, liver enzymes. It didn't show up, which is amazing to me with the amount that I drank. I think for me, it was losing weight, that was a big part, having more energy, feeling healthier, eating the right foods, because you tend to eat at junk, you know, when you're drinking. Um, it did type two diabetes is a factor. Very prevalent. And it it so I'm still fighting that.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

Um have you heard that the um trisepatides and the semiglutides that those are really those are treatments that they're looking for at addicts because it stops that that noise.

SPEAKER_04 56:03

That noise. I saw that actually yesterday. It's funny. I I so I haven't done any research on it, but yes, I've seen that.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Yeah, that's crazy. Well, Jennifer, um, I want to thank you for coming in and sharing your story and your journey and opening up your heart to the listeners here because I think it's real important to share this message. And you've been really bold in doing that. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 56:28

Yeah, absolutely. It's very brave. If anybody needs help, please, you know, contact Steve and and Michelle and message us and we'll get you connected.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

And how do we get a hold of positive recovery? Actually, through me. Okay. Yeah. We'll do the same thing. Yes. So you guys email us at mall at michelle at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

I'll put a link. Uh well, if you can share me a link with how people get a hold of you, we'll put that on the website.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Jennifer, where um in town do you know um holds AA meetings? Is if that if just talking to you is still scary or con contacting a rehab center is scary. Do you know of places here in in Drip where they could just pop in?

SPEAKER_04 57:09

So the Methodist I don't know what the schedule is because I have since moved to Canyon Lake. But when I was here, we had meetings every single day. I think they even have noon meetings at the church.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 57:20

If you're facing the church from 12, on the left side is a little um outbuilding, and that's where it's held. Okay. Um, I don't know what else they have in town here now. But if you go on your Apple um or your wherever you get your apps, oh really? There's something, it's a meeting guide, and it's a blue square meeting guide with a white chair. And they can look at any meetings wherever they are, and it shows up on a map. It's cool.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

That's really neat. Okay, well, I looked, it says not a glum lot in person.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

That's the AA meeting at the Methodist Church.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

So they have a Mondays from 12 to 1, Tuesdays. So yeah, you can. Well, thank you again, Jennifer, for being there. You've been our friend for for over a decade now, and we're so blessed to be able to get to know you and to know your story as well. I think that even if just one person hears your story and think, wow, she was she was functioning. I didn't know. I saw her out. I think that's real common.

SPEAKER_01 58:18

People don't expect that. That you know, you that vision you have of an alcoholic is the stumbling, falling, life is out of control. And for most people, it's not anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 58:29

Yeah, I don't know when I told you. I was trying to think. When did you when did I tell you? Was it years ago? It was years ago.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

I think it was years ago. I want to say it was because you were you represented the seller on the house that my wife and I live in now, which we absolutely love. Absolutely. Maybe it was around then, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

Yeah, I mean, I started telling people here and there, but anyway. Thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

Well, thank you for your friendship as well. We do appreciate it too.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

Yeah, thank you for coming in.

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This show is brought to you in part by the Mallet Integrity Team, serving Dripping Springs, Austin, and the surrounding areas of Central Texas since 2004. When you need the best real estate advice and service, give them a call at 512-829-2062 or email them at MalletIntegrity Team.com. And now here's Steve and Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

And we're back. Wow, what a great interview. She really opened up her soul to us in ways I didn't expect, quite honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

Yeah, it was really good. And you know, a lot of the discussions that we had and we talked about what is the line between social drinking, alcohol misuse, and alcoholism. Um, but I kind of did a little dive on the statistics, the current statistics of alcohol use in the United States, and it was really kind of eye-opening to me. About 62%, I'm sorry, 62% of Americans age 12. Okay. 12 and older.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Well, both both people we've had on the podcast talk about their alcohol abuse started very, very young. Very young with Micah and Jennifer.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

Well, 62% of Americans age 12 and older, approximately 170 million people reported drinking alcohol in the past year. Okay. And about 85% of those adults have consumed alcohol at some point in their lives. So 85% of all adults in the United States have consumed it. So I think this new term, it's not necessarily called alcoholism. They call it alcohol use disorder. AUD. An estimated 28 million Americans, again, age 12 and older. The statistic goes to age 12 and older, had AUD in 2025. It's roughly one in 10 people.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

So is that uh that they lean on alcohol maybe for social situations or to cope with things? It's not like you're a full-on alcoholic where you you're drinking every day, but you do depend on alcohol for to some degree.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

I think that's probably correct. Um among adults alone, 27.1 million people meet the criteria for AUD. So then we'll go into like the binge and heavy drinking. 17% of all U.S. adults report binge drinking. Six percent of adults cons are considered heavy drinkers, but more than 90% of people who drink excessively are binge drinkers. But most binge drinkers are not alcohol dependent, which I don't understand this. So the b you know, a binge drinker.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

I know what that means, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:06

It's just, you know, somebody on the weekend and they're Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

When I was 22 years old, every Friday night we'd go get a 24 pack of beer and go to the lake and just get blitzed drunk. Sorry, Dad. Sorry, Mom. But you know, but I didn't drink during the week at all. So it would be like, you know, I'm not addicted to alcohol on any measure. But when I would drink, I would drink huge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

And so along with that, binge drinking can still cause deaths, which actually it does. Excessive alcohol use contributes to approximately 178,000 deaths per year in the United States. It is one of the, this was shocking to me. One of the leading preventable causes of death in the country.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

So that's probably more people drunk driving, probably, than anything, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

That's pretty friggin' scary. And, you know, you you're, you know, we just came off of the Fourth of July. And, you know, I didn't pull any um statistics for that, but I'm sure, you know, you know, like New Year's Eve, Fourth of July.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

If you drive home at midnight on Fourth of July down 290, you're taking your life in your hands. Or New Year's Eve at 1 o'clock in the morning. You were literally taking your life in your hands because probably half the people on the road at that time are drunk to some level.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

And to go with what Jennifer was saying about the stigma and the embarrassment of trying to get help, only 2.5% of people with alcohol use disorder receive medication-assisted treatment. Among among adults with AUD, only 2.4% received medications that can help reduce craving or prevent relapse. Uh that's when I was talking to her about um the new uses they were finding about the semiglutide and the trisepatide, is that they're they're finding that um to be true, that it's helping these people with any type of addiction. And then you talk about kind of the family impact. And that's kind of like my personal story was I was talking about what what my impact was. When we stopped recording, you had walked out, Jennifer gave me a hug, and she said, I'm really sorry about your dad. And I said, you know, I said, I it's made me who I was. I hate that that's that's who he was, but it made me who I was. But children that grow up, millions of children that grow up with a parent who have an alcohol use disorder, they have increasingly risk of anxiety and depression, substance use disorders themselves, relationship difficulties, financial instability, and adverse childhood experiences, which isn't actually a disorder. Me, on the other hand, it just gave me my wicked warped sense of humor and my belief I can fix everyone. Everything. So I feel like that's it, it it is yeah, it was part of my childhood, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

You know, something that jumps out at me is uh uh, you know, Jennifer said she covered up her alcohol abuse for so long and nobody knew. But then on the other side of that spectrum is the people that are. Alcoholics that think they're covering it up, but everybody in the family knows they're struggling with it. And it's like uh probably wasn't talked about, right? Yeah. Did you guys ever talk about it as a family?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Um, well, as it look, you know me as an adult. Yeah. Okay. So when have I ever been quiet about my opinions? And so I did. I I talked to them about it. It the moment the day that my stepfather got help, he um he was a very accomplished guy, was very, very intelligent. He fell, he was he would drink a whole bottle of vodka a day, a whole bottle after work. He was a functioning alcoholic, okay, that's what they'd call. And he fell in the garage and broke his leg, compound fracture in his leg. And he looked over at my mother and he said, That's it. I want to go to treatment. So he had a broken leg, and on the same time he was detoxing into this hospital. Now, granted, this is 1988. It was like 80, 87, 88. Okay. This was even rarely, even more rarely talked about during then.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

So it wasn't even considered a problem, quite honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

No, and you know, um he did he made right by himself. Um, my parents ended up getting divorced, and uh he became an alcohol uh he used to work for a treatment center in New Mexico on a reservation. So he he did a great job kind of trying to turn his life around. And unfortunately, my mother didn't wasn't included in that um because she continued to drink.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Yeah. Um but it's so hard on family. It's so hard on the the on the loved ones. Um so you know, Jennifer coming here and sharing her story. Hopefully that there's somebody out there listening right now that thinks, okay, it's time for me to do something about my life and protect my family. Yeah. I gotta take that first step. And Jennifer said, reach out to her. She'd love to hear from it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Absolutely. And and the fact that she was so honest and truthful and there wasn't the embarrassment factor. She she recognizes now that by her telling her story, she may be helping somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, one of the places in Dripping Springs where people could go to drink on a regular basis is no longer there. We got notice last week that Oakwood Market, uh, which opened, believe it or not, opened in September of 25. Has it's been what like nine months that it's been there. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

I have really enjoyed their establishment. I have really I we have a really good family friend that works there. Work there. You and I have gone to the coffee shop and worked, and we've we've spent several lunches there. I don't understand from an investment standpoint how in less than a year you decided.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

To pull the plug on something that you've invested millions and millions of dollars.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

So, how does that work? Do you lose it? Maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

The only thing I can think of from a development standpoint is maybe they projected that they were going to open the doors and they were gonna be cash flow positive right from day one. Uh huh. And they didn't leave enough money in the bank, and that what was left dwindled so quickly. Maybe they were losing.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:12

They had to just stop the bleeding.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Yeah. Maybe they thought they'd break even, and maybe they were losing 20 grand a month, or 30, or 50, or 100 grand a month. Yeah. And then they just couldn't stop the bleeding. And so Yeah, there were parts of it that were a really great idea. The uh the restaurant, the bar, the the soda shop, the coffee shop, the market thing. I never saw anybody in the market. And they didn't push the meeting room or anything. There were they did some things that I didn't think were they they didn't they didn't get engaged enough with the community.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

Well, I I sat there one day and I I met with um one of the guys that was on the podcast. And um I said, you know, I said it's really interesting. This was, you know, before any hints of them closing. And I said, I feel like I come in here and the menu's changing, and you know, but you guys have a really good concept. And he goes, I appreciate that. Keep telling us because we're just we're adjusting to what the public wants. Well, I think maybe probably what was happening was they were adjusting too much and they were just constantly changing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

So last time I had lunch in there, their menu went from what it started out at like four pages with good selection of things down to like six things, and they were all super expensive. They weren't even that good.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:25

Didn't you get like a sandwich and and French fries, and it was like 24 bucks?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

It was, yeah. For it was a small sandwich too, yeah. So I mean they kind of I hate to say it. Uh obviously if they had been profitable, they could have made some adjustments, but they were digging their own grave at the end because people were like, I'm not gonna go spend sixty bucks for lunch, and it's just a media.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:46

Yeah, they took the pizza away, then they brought the pizza back and they changed the hours, and then they moved the hours again, and they had this and they had that. And so you know what? I I wish them luck. Um I don't know what they're gonna do there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

I don't know. I don't know what that building becomes, is I mean, it's set up for that. Either somebody's gonna go in and rip out everything and start over. I can't imagine another investor is gonna come in and go, well, they didn't make it, but let's try it and see if we can make a go of it. I don't I mean, maybe there's somebody out there that's got deeper pockets, but I don't know. That's it's gonna be that's not gonna be a building that is easily uh put into a different use.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:24

Yeah, I agree. So I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

Well, speaking about uses, um I've been reading some articles. It keeps popping up on my news feed uh that we watch for stories on the podcast. I've learned this week, and I never knew this, the French hate air conditioning. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

So I saw something across my news article that they are trying to ban air conditioners.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Is that it's actually well there there's some uh uh rules written into law in France about air conditioning. And there uh the Paris mayor, Emmanuel Gregoire, he recently Gregoire. He said individual air conditioning, air conditioning is a scourge, and public authorities must act quickly to prevent a rush to install home see home air conditioning. So apparently, right now, most of Europe is in a record-breaking heat wave. It's hotter there than it's been ever. What is it like 85? No, I think it's in the 90s and hundreds there a lot. So obviously, you know, we've been very blessed in this country. 90 percent of the businesses and houses in our country have air conditioning that need it. I mean, if obviously if you live in upstate New York, you might not need air conditioning.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:33

100%. You know, when I went to Paris a couple of years ago, my requirement for staying in Paris was a king-sized bed and air conditioning.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

Yeah. Well, apparently you can get it in some commercial buildings. You can't where they're struggling is the government, which is the city government and the the national government, are telling people the heat wave's gonna pass, don't get an air conditioning, just pull your shades down, and if you don't have shades, tape cardboard onto your windows. Oh, keep your house cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:01

What a bunch of stinky French people. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

That's funny that you say that because all of these wacky leftist ideas that come from other parts of the world will eventually come to the United States. It will not be long.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:16

From my cold dead hands, will you take my AC?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

It will not be long before you start seeing TikTok TikTok and Instagram reels saying, if you're have air conditioning in your house, then you're a capitalist. I am, I'm a pig. Oink, oink. So now 62 degrees. Yeah. So now uh not only are we gonna have people with green hair and septum piercings, but they're in the an armchair or arm armpit hair, but they're also gonna stink with BO because they don't they won't have air conditioning. But I I was reading through some of these stories. In in Spain, so this is more leftist stuff from out of Europe, you cannot have your air conditioning set below 80 degrees. It's a law. So in a public building, you can't set the air. Could you imagine being in this I'd be in jail when it's 78 in here? We're like, holy hell, it's hot in here. What's wrong with the air conditioning?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

Yeah, I'd be in jail. Like legit and that's just that is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

Well, uh, I mean it's got to be. We are saying that it's contributing to greenhouse gases and contributing to global warming. But uh I was reading through that. They're saying that the U.S. uh air conditioning contributes 3% of our global of our greenhouse emissions. 3%. 3%. So they're saying that we're destroying the world. Ignoring everything that's going on in China, where I don't think they have any limits over there. They're doing whatever they want. But we're ruining the world because we want to keep our air conditionings at 74 degrees and not sweat to death in the summer. So I I've I was looking for the number.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

They were saying that weren't I I saw on TikTok, Steve, that um they were blaming Americans for people dying in Europe because of our obsession with AC. Is that right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Yes. Okay. So in Europe, since 2020, no, in 2022, the year 2022, 61,000 people died in Europe uh from heat-related death, from heat heat-related injuries. 61,000 people. That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:23

Is it mainly elderly though? And like compromise.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:34

It's so ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:36

I'm gonna stick ice in my underwear if I go into go business somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

But I'm I guarantee you, if you haven't seen this trend yet on social media, you will see it where there is a call for people in the United States to stop air conditioning their homes. That's right. I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:53

I have a new idea, Steve. New business idea. Okay. We're gonna create underwear that you can put a little pocket of ice in. Right. Little ice pocket, and we're gonna be millionaires. Oh god. We're only gonna sell it over in here.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:04

Ice pocket undies.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:05

Ice pocket. It's gonna be called American wear.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

American wear. American wear. Could they be kangaroo pouch? Kangaroo pouch. Put your little ice in your kangaroo pouch. Are you wearing the pouch on the front or the back?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:19

Well, a lot of things that uh annoy other people about Americans, I would not think this would be one of them. You know, I have said this to you before. I don't know if I've ever said this public, but I am a teeth judger. I I judge teeth. I always have toothpicks, right? Which is a Texas girl cigarette. Um, I I judge people based on their teeth, their color of their teeth, they get shit in their teeth, they give them, they don't, it just grosses me out. Well, Americans are being judged overseas because Americans have great smiles, but they creep out the foreigners.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

Because they don't like seeing nice clean teeth. Well, because it because Europeans generally don't have great teeth.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:03

Well, they they don't, they don't, and they are saying that your teeth are so white and they are so straight, and it's not even just in Britain. But here's here's a few reasons why this may be happening, why they don't like our teeth. The cosmetic dentistry industry in the United States is booming and it could surpass $20 billion this year. Okay, so you know, maybe you should have been a dentist. There's a term in Europe called a lot of things I should have done. Right. Have you ever heard of the term turkey teeth?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:34

Never heard that before.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:36

It mocks people who have cheap, overdone veneers that don't seem natural, and it's so it just makes your teeth look too perfect, but okay, whatever. And some for foreigners say turkey teeth smiles give them the ick.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

Why was why is that turkey teeth? I don't understand. I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:50

Well, I've seen it before where like some celebrities, like their teeth just are like all straight and they don't have any kind of definition to them. Feels artificial, forced, and sincere, and even dishonest, right? Okay, whatever. But you know what? When they're putting these veneers, and I don't know if you've ever seen how they do it, they're grinding down your original teeth and sticking up in there. I I wouldn't be able to do it. And then talk like this then. Um, in Australia, a dentist says patients worry about ending up with a smile that looks too American. Instead, they prefer work that looks natural, which I could say that not something that looks like they've had their teeth done. Another person in South America said American smiles come across as sus. You know what that means? Like suspect. And broad toothy smiles can be ominous in some cultures where you see both rows of teeth. One person notes that in the animal world, showing teeth is rarely associated with happiness, it usually signals aggression or a thought. And then this one was really funny. Someone in the Czech Republic said if someone approached with a big open American smile, the reaction would be, Do I know this person? Are they trying to flirt? Because are they scamming? Yeah, well, that's traditionally reserved for people you already know. Well, I am a big tooth smiler. I I smile with my whole mouth. And do you remember a couple of years ago I got my jaw Botox because I was having all that TMJ? And I could not smile with the bottom half of my mouth. And I was and I just looked like I was picked up.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:15

You're mad. Who's messing with my my sandwich? Who's messing with my iced tea?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:24

So uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

My biggest thing with my smile is whenever I take a picture of somebody, I always smile like I want them to. Like, hey, I'm taking your picture. Hi Big Toothy smile. Well, international story here. I love this. Uh, there is a vigilante on the loose in Mexico. The Mexican Batman is duct taping thieves to telephone poles in Mexico, and the police are outraged. They're out to get this.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:50

The Mexican Batman. You know, like the Batman signal where it's like the Bat, what is it? Like a big taco that they put up in a spot. Mexican Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

Police in Mexico are searching for a mystery uh vigilante that locals have nicknamed Mexican Batman. Over the past few weeks, five suspected motorcycle thieves have been found duct taped to light poles with the stolen motorcycles parked nearby. So this Mexican Batman knocks these guys off these motorcycles, tapes them to a telephone pole. In some cases, they've written the word thief across their forehead for veganzales. So the peace, the police show up and go, okay, we know what's going on here. Aye yay. But the police, they're they're calling out all their resources to find this guy because they're reminding everyone that people found tied up are still considered victims. Oh, regardless of the accusations. Like, no, that those people deserve to be duct taped to a telephone pole if you're ripping off people's motorcycles.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:50

I think it is. It could be Speedy Gonzalez, because you know he was known as the fastest mouse in Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

Fastest mouse in Mexico. Not sure we could say that anymore. But anyway, more power to Mexican Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:01

And I say Can you even say Mexican Batman?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:03

I don't know. I don't know. Hopefully that doesn't get us canceled. Hopefully, Apple Podcasts won't pull us off the air. I think we need a little more vigilanteism here. You know, we need if some people are stealing stuff out of your garage, they need to be taped to a telephone pole someplace.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

Why not?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:18

Yeah, I have I'm with you. They cut you off in traffic, somebody needs to pull them out of the car and tape them to a telephone pole.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:24

Oh, I was gonna say, don't just make sure you say don't tape them to a telephone pole. You know, I was in youth minister.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:30

I wish this person had an Instagram, Mexican Batman Instagram. I would definitely follow it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:34

I I was in youth ministry, and one time we took our head youth minister at Riverbend and we duct taped him to the wall.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

That sounds painful.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:43

Well, he was wearing clothes. We didn't like duct tape a naked youth minister. That's that's okay. Why are you searching Mexican bathrooms? I was searching Batman, but I just didn't searching Mexican Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

Oh, there it is. Look at that. They are duct taped like maximum to the pole. That is so funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:06

It's a Hispanic Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

Vigilani named Mexican Batman sparks debate after targeting suspected thieves.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:12

Batman Esteca. Batman has a real life Batman hunting down thieves at night. Oh, this is funny. I love it. This is what I'm gonna be for Halloween. Mexican Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:21

Yeah, we need some more Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:22

Hola, Miyamo es Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:24

Miyamo as Batman.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

Miyamo es Micaela Batman.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:29

Well, you go get them, Mexican Batman. Hopefully, get some more of them criminals out there. And we will be back next week. Thank you all for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

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This show is brought to you in part by the Mallet Integrity Team, serving Dripping Springs, Austin, and the surrounding areas of Central Texas since 2004. When you need the best real estate advice and service, give them a call at 512-829-2062. Or email them at Mallet Integrity Team.com.

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